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Many people have contributed to the information on this page, helping to build up this De Saxe family history, and I will try and list them all. If I have left any person or people out, it is inadvertent and I hope they will advise me accordingly. Thank you:
Greg de Saxe (see the Greg de Saxe File below)
David de Saxe
David De Saxe
Marian De Saxe
Louis Eskell
Gary Jaynes
Anthony Joseph
Eric Petersen
John Nash
Sue Benson
Thora Gibson
Peter de Waal
Peter Trebilco
Kirsten Friis Holm-Hughes
Patty Sutker

The two of us, my sister Molly (Jeannette Molly) and I, (Emanuel Joshua, known as Mannie or Jos) are the children of Annie Rachel born Kuper, and Morris Isaac De Saxe.

Jeannette Molly De Saxe was born on 18 March 1924, and I was born on 30 October 1926.

De Saxe Family Photo circa 1928

This photo was taken around 1928 - Morris De Saxe, Mannie aged about 2, Annie, Molly aged about 5

Our parents were Annie Rachel Kuper (born Johannesburg, 25 April 1897, died Johannesburg, 28 June 1976 aged 79 - See Kuper family details ) and Morris Isaac De Saxe (born Melbourne, 23 October 1898, died Johannesburg 28 August 1930 aged 31)

Morris Isaac De Saxe was the older son of Paulina De Saxe (born Mendelssohn in Brisbane, 19 June 1877, died Melbourne 29 August 1902 aged 25 - See Emanuel and Mendelssohn family details Part 1) and Charles Moses De Saxe (born Kilburn, London, 1 December 1865, died West Parley, Dorset 17 December 1941 aged 76)


Morris De Saxe aged between 1 and 2 years old with his mother Paulina at 25 Brighton Road, St Kilda, circa 1900

Morris De Saxe aged about 3 months with his mother Paulina - photo taken at Mendelssohn and Co. Photographers, 80 Swanston Street, Melbourne, early 1899


Brixton Cemetery Johannesburg - Morris De Saxe's grave

Photos by Mannie De Saxe, Brixton Cemetery, Johannesburg, 1977. I was leaving for Australia early in 1978, and as I had never been to visit my father's grave at Brixton Cemetery, I went on my first visit and took these photos.


Brixton Cemetery, Johannesburg - Morris De Saxe's grave

Photos by Ken Davis, Brixton Cemetery, Johannesburg, 1998. Ken took these photos, at my request, on one of his many trips to South Africa

Charles Moses De Saxe aged 33 and Paulina De Saxe (born Mendelssohn) aged 21 in London in 1898 shortly after their marriage and shortly before their departure for Australia

Poster at Sovereign Hill, Ballarat, found and photographed by the Rosenstein Family in the early 1980s. Selim De Saxe was probably an uncle of Charles De Saxe (to be confirmed)

Charles De Saxe and his second wife Ella (born Lazarus) in Bournmouth (?), photo taken by Fanny Heyman on a visit to England during the 1930s. Charles was probably about 70 at the time.

Charles De Saxe, details as in the previous photo

The earliest information I have is from a book by a family connection by the name of Louis B. Eskell. Louis writes as follows about the four brothers:


(c 1788/81-1878)

“Salomon was the second oldest of the brothers who sailed from Holland. His name changes over the years and variations include Salomon Ezechiel Moses, Salomon Van Noorden, Solomon Isaaces, Solomon Isaacs de Saxe and, finally, the name he settled with, John de Saxe.

John changed his address more often than he changed his name. He first lived in Edinburgh where he married Fanny Lyons, the daughter of surgeon-dentist Herman Lyons. Fanny was born in 1801. Later he lived in Gibraltar, Bath and, finally, London.

John was a tobacconist in both Gibraltar and Bath, and a very successful one too. His business was advertised in the London directories of 1853, 1859 and 1862.

I have discovered very little information about Fanny Lyons. She was the sister of Sophia Lyons, also of Edinburgh, who married her husband’s brother Philip Eskell. In 1846 she and her brother-in-law Philip signed the marriage certificate of Philip’s daughter Ann, solemnizing the marriage. She signed in the name of Fanny Isaacs.

As far as I can find out, John and Fanny had seven children, most of whom began life with the surname Isaacs, eventually ending up as de Saxe.

Henry, their eldest son, was born in Scotland in about 1819 and died aged 60 on January 11 1878, just 10 days after his father, with whom he lived. Henry was a bachelor throughout his life and practiced as a surgeon-dentist. The 1861 census shows that he was then living with his first cousin Frederick and family, another surgeon-dentist, in Manchester. Frederick, the nephew of John de Saxe, was my great-grandfather. Henry later moved to London to join his father, his sister Isabella and her husband Alfred Davis. Alfred and Henry’s brother Morris, and umbrella maker – also born in Scotland in about 1821 and married in 1846 to Abigail Isaacs, born in about 1827 – proved Henry’s Will.

Morris and Abigail seem to have had a daughter, Annie, born in 1847 and a son Joseph, born in 1851.

This photo of my great-grandfather Morris De Saxe was sent to me by his great-great-granddaughter, Patty Sutker, USA in July 2012. Also the next photos of her great-grandmother Annie (married to Henry Woolf), and Annie with 6 of her children:

During their Gibraltar days, John and Fanny had three more children. Lewis (later Charles de Saxe), a surgeon-dentist, was born in about 1822. Lewis married the 22-year-old Isabella Barnard from Liverpool in 1842 and they had two children, Anne, born in London in about 1843, and Henry, born two years later in Sheffield.

John and Fanny’s other children Alice and Ann were born in Gibraltar in the 1830s.

By coincidence, Lewis, later Charles, died in 1878, the same year as both his father and brother Henry. I can find no record of either sister having married. A third sister, Maria, married into the Nathan family.

I am sure that John’s family has multiplied over the years but since they are somewhat removed from my own direct line I have not researched their history further.”

I am indebted to Louis Eskell for this information on my branch of the family, but believe there are certain inaccuracies which I will try and correct as this history develops. The first error seems to be that Louis uses a spelling for John’s surname which is contradicted by birth and death certificates. It seems it should be De Saxe and not de Saxe – in other words the D is capitalized.

I have found two different sets of information about John and Fanny's children - and the numbers of them! There seems to be confusion as to whether they were called Isaacs or de Saxe because one chart has them as Isaacs except for one of them, and the other chart has them all as De Saxe - no details available as to the spelling - a capitalised D or not! I will number the lists (1) and (2) with their details:

List (1) - mostly Isaacs:

* [1] Isaac (Charles?) Isaacs born in 1817 in Gibraltar, married Isabella Barnard (born in Liverpool in 1815) in 1842 and died in 1879
* [2] Maria Isaacs born 1820, married 1847 as Maria de Saxe to John Nathan, son of Henry Nathan
* [3] Henry Isaacs born c1821 in Middlesex and died in London in 1878 as de Saxe?
* [4] Morris Isaacs born in 1823 (1822?) in Scotland, died in 1905 in London as Morris de Saxe, married (1) Abigail Isaacs (1844) and (2) Jane Davis Moses (1838-1918)
* [5] Annie Isaacs, born c1823 in Gibraltar, died in Wandsworth in 1901 as De Saxe, unmarried
* [6] Lewis Isaacs born in 1826 in "foreign parts!", married Lydia who died in 1878. He became a dentist and took the name de Saxe and died in London in 1891
* [7] George de Saxe (Joshua Isaacs?) born Gibraltar c 1827 died NSW 1887, married Jane Anne Fox in Melbourne in 1854
* [8] Selim Isaacs born c1833 in Edinburgh died in 1902 in Melbourne married Ellen Waghorne, daughter of James and his wife, Elizabeth Steer
* [9] Isabella Isaacs born c1841 in London, married Alfred Davis

List (2) - mostly De Saxe:

# [1] Charles De Saxe born in Gibraltar, married Isabella Barnard (born in Liverpool in 1815) on 12 January 1842 and died on 5 February 1879
# [2] Henry De Saxe born in 1815 in Middlesex and died in London on 8 January 1878, unmarried
# [3] Morris De Saxe born in 1822 in London, died on 11 August 1905 in London, married twice: (1) Abigail Isaacs born c1826 in Aldgate London, died 14 August 1844; (2) Jane Moses Davis born 27 March 1838, died on 25 December 1920 in Hampstead, London
# [4] Annie De Saxe born in 1823 in Gibraltar and died on 5 December 1901 in London
# [5] Lewis (Charles) De Saxe born in 1826 in Gibraltar died on 16 June 1878 in Ramsgate, married Lydia Calder born in 1819, died on 2 May 1891 in Brighton
# [6] Joshua De Saxe (known as George) born Gibraltar in 1827, died on 31 May 1887 in Melbourne, married Jane Ann Fox (born in 1835 in Islington, England) on 27 August 1854 in Melbourne. Jane died on 5 September 1900
# [7] Maria De Saxe born in 1828 married John Nathan (born 1808) on 14 January 1847. He died c 1876
# [8] Selim De Saxe born Edinburgh in 1838 and died in Melbourne on 4 October 1902 married Ellen Waghorne (born 1830) on 10 April 1858. She died in 1904
# [9] Isabella De Saxe born in 1838 in Middlesex and died on 5 July 1879 in Watford. She was married to Alfred Davis

MORRIS (ISAACS?) DE SAXE 1822 (OR 1823)- 1905

Morris De Saxe is shown on two different charts as either the third or fourth child born to John and Fanny De Saxe (or Isaacs – the name changes of this family are so numerous and strange that one has to wonder what they were about – and why!)

As others of his siblings about this period seem to have been born in Gibraltar, it is logical that he was also born there. He died in London on 11 August 1905, aged 83.

Morris was first married to Abigail Isaacs (a relative?) who was born around 1826 in Aldgate, London. They appear to have married on 14 August 1844, and her death date is at the moment unrecorded. However, judging by the birth dates of the first two children and the remaining five, Abigail would have died any time between 1850 and 1865.

Morris and Abigail had two children:

[1] Annie, born in London in 1848 and married to Henry Woolfe, and
[2] Joseph, born in London in 1850 and married to Juanita Evelyn Fox in 1888.

Morris then married Jane Moses Davis (or as shown elsewhere Jane Davis Moses) and they had five children, the oldest being my grandfather:

[3] Charles Morris (or Moses) De Saxe, born in 1866, who was first married to my grandmother Paulina Mendelssohn who was born in Brisbane in 1877, in London on 23 December 1897, and they had two children, my father Morris Isaac, born 23 October 1898 in Melbourne and died in Johannesburg on 28 August 1930, aged 31, and Wilfred Emanuel, born in April 1900 in Melbourne and who disappeared without trace between 1905 and 1910. Paulina died in Melbourne on 29 August 1902, and Charles married Ella Lazarus on 12 December 1916 in England. Charles died in Dorset in 1941, aged 75.

The other four children of Morris and Jane were:

[4] Estella Catherine De Saxe, born in 1869 in Hampstead, London, married in 1897 to James Jamaiker who died in 1928, and they had three children;

[5] Edward Albert De Saxe, born in 1873 and died on 1 June 1911, married to Helene Frankenstein, born in 1877, and they had three children;

[6] Francis Alice De Saxe married to unknown James, and they had no children;

[7] Harold Lewis De Saxe, born 1884 and married to Rebecca Druif (nee Leon) on 28 March 1923. They had no children.

This item about my great-grandfather Morris De Saxe comes from the Old Bailey Online, and is dated 19 November 1866 (shortly before my grandfather Charles Moses De Saxe was born):

Reference Number: t18661119-28

28. GEORGE COOK (21) , Stealing on 13th May three umbrellas, on 25th July four umbrellas, and on 21st July four umbrellas, of Morris Desaxe, his master.

MR. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT ELLIS . I am assistant to Mr. Harrison, a pawnbroker, of Aldersgate Street—I produce four umbrellas pawned on 31st July for 18s. I do not know by whom.

HENRY CARPENTER . I am assistant to Mr. Smith, a pawnbroker, of Newgate Street—I produce three umbrellas, pawned on 30th May for 15s., and four on 25th July, for 15s.—I do not identify the person.

GEORGE ALFRED FLEET . I am porter to Mr. Desaxe, an umbrella maker, of Addle Street—it was my duty to act under the prisoner's directions—I have taken umbrellas, by his directions, in wrappers with his name on them, to the Lancashire Coffee-house, London Wall, twice, if not more; and four or five times, or more, to the Crown, Lower Whitecross Street—there appeared to be three or four in each package.

See original Prisoner. Q. Have you ever seen me bring parcels in? A. No, I have seen you walk in with an umbrella in your hand on a wet morning—the instructions you gave me were to say, "Can I leave this here in charge for Mr. Cook?"

LOUIS STEINGRABER . I keep the Crown coffee-house—the prisoner was in the habit of coming there for refreshment—parcels and umbrellas were left there for him, very likely a dozen times, which he took away.

Prisoner. Q. Will you swear that all the parcels contained umbrellas? A. I cannot, but they were nearly all alike; none of them contained a pair of boots.

MORRIS DESAXE . I am an umbrella manufacturer, of Addle Street—the prisoner has been in my service ten months previous to 14th September—these umbrellas are mine, and were removed from my stock without my authority—I took stock on 20th October and found a considerable deficiency.

Prisoner. Q. Had you any suspicion of my robbing you during the time I was in your employment? A. Not the slightest.

COURT. Q. Was he entitled to give instructions to the boy? A. Not to leave umbrellas at coffee-houses, but the boy was right in acting under him.

JOSEPH WILLIAM THORPE (City Policeman 199). On 3rd November I took the prisoner and charged him with stealing a quantity of umbrellas—he was taken to Moor Lane station and charged with stealing ten dozen umbrellas—he said, "Not so many as that"—I conveyed him to the cell, and as I was about closing the door he said, "I may as well make a clean breast of it; the most I ever took was about two dozen"—I asked him what he had done with them—he told me he had pledged two or three lots at Mrs. Harrison's, in Aldersgate Street, and three or four lots in Newgate Street—I searched him and found 14s. 2 1/2;d. on him and some betting cards.

Prisoner's Defence. I admit giving instructions that the umbrellas should go out, but it was with a very different motive to that imputed to me. The parcels contained four or five each, and he is correct in saying six parcels. I took about twenty umbrellas altogether. I totally deny stealing them or pawning them, but one or two friends asked me to get them umbrellas a little cheaper than they could get them at the retail place. I said, "Yes," and took out two or three for them to choose from. In doing so I have acted wrongly, but I paid the money I received for them to the managing clerk. If I charged them anything I took it for myself, as my salary was not enough to keep me. I have been guilty of a very silly action, but nothing for which he ought to have branded me with the name of felon. He does the second largest business in London, and it is only feasible that a few of his umbrellas should get into pawnshops by other means than mine, and neither of the pawnbrokers swear to me, whereas if I had taken as many as he says I should have been pretty well known. I had six years' good character when I went to him from Messrs. Ellis, Howell, and Co.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months .


Records seem to suggest that Selim De Saxe, younger brother of my great-grandfather Morris, may have been the first De Saxe to arrive in Australia. He is recorded as being a surgeon-dentist, and during the gold-rush period in Ballarat he was on the goldfields attending to teeth, as the poster from Sovereign Hill earlier in this De Saxe history shows.

An older brother Joshua, who seems to have been known as George, married Jane Ann Fox in Melbourne on 27 August 1854 and died in Melbourne on 31 May 1887. So it is possible that George was here first and Selim followed soon afterwards.

Their nephew Joseph must have arrived some years later, followed briefly by my grandfather Charles, Joseph’s half-brother, who was in Melbourne from 1898 to about 1907.

George de Saxe’s family details were sent to me by Thora Gibson in 1983. The information indicates where many of the de Saxes in Australia originate, and shows that we are all related.

George de Saxe, brother of my great-grandfather Morris, was married to Jane Ann(e) Fox. They had eight children:

[1] George Ben de Saxe born in England c1854 and apparently a dentist
[2] Louis de Saxe born in Melbourne c 1858 and called a surgeon dentist
[3] William H de Saxe born in Melbourne in 1860, died in 1900 – not married and listed as comedian
[4] Florence de Saxe born in Sydney c1862 married to Walter Tindale, a journalist at the Australian Embassy in New Caledonia. They had three sons.
[5] Charles de Saxe born in Sydney c1865 called a dentist
[6] Ellen Maude de Saxe born in Sydney c1867 married to Austin Albert Wallis born in Sydney and called a builder architect. They had three children.
[7] Alfred Ernest de Saxe born Sydney 1869 died 1960, surgeon dentist married to Elizabeth d’Argan

Photo sent by Greg de Saxe in April 2008 shows Elizabeth Ann, daughter Marion Jane, Alfred Ernest - photo taken circa mid-1950s.

[8] John Percy de Saxe born Sydney 1870? Dentist

This photo, sent to me by Greg de Saxe (in April 2008) who was sent it by his brother Brian de Saxe is of unknown origin and place. We hope people will recognise where it was taken and possibly some of the people in it, two of whom may be De Saxe family members!

Details of the offspring of the above people are varied according to the sources – dates, birthplaces, ages, places of marriage and death, so I will list what I have and hope to sort it all out when people make contact to correct items or add or delete various entries. I will list them according to their listings above and hope it makes sense! This listing below was put together by Brian de Saxe and given to Phil Tomlins from whom I received it in 1986.

[1a] George Benjamin de Saxe is shown as being born in Bendigo in 1856, married Phoebe Allsop in Sydney and died in 1911 as a dentist in Taree NSW. Details of their offspring and their ages are as in 1911:

2 males died
Francis, dentist, Marrickville, aged 30
Eunice aged 27
Clarice aged 23 and she had 4 children, Harry, Maurice, Philip (Tomlins), Alan
Nellie aged 21
Reginald aged 17 – dentist later?
Olive aged 16
Harry aged 13 – son Ken?

[3] William Henry born Bendigo 1858, actor, bachelor

[2] Louis born Windsor, Melbourne 1859, dentist, married Cora (actress?)

[4] Florence born Bendigo 1861, actress, married John Trindall, engineer, lived Noumea, 5 boys

[5] Charles born Sydney 1865, dentist

[6] Ellen Maude born Sydney 1867, actress, married Austin Wallis, children Vera, Rene Wallis actress, Thora born 1907 married Gibson, daughter Sue Benson

[7] Alfred Ernest born 1869 in Sydney, dentist, married to Elizabeth. They had six children:

[a] Vera born 1892 died 1979, married to Arthur White, and they had five children:

[a{1} to a{5}]

[b] Horace born 1894 died 2 years later

[c] Norman Douglas born 1895 died 1969, dentist farmer married Clare Violet Herman (Ilford Photographic Co.) and they had three children:

[c{1} to [c{3}]
Brian born 1925 artist
Margaret born 1929 married to – Reidy
Gregory born 1942

[d] Violet born 1896 died 1960 married to {1} Will McIntyre {2} – Powell

[e] Philip born 1901 farmer, Griffith NSW married to Nellie Heathrington (from UK). They had three children:

[e{1}] to [e{3}]

Greg de Saxe has sent some corrections(7 JANUARY 2013) to certain of the items shown above, and also added a few comments:

1) George died in Sydney not Melbourne.
He moved to Sydney after the birth of :
George 1856
Lewis 1858
Wlliam 1859
Florence ( Ballarat) 1862
In Sydney:
Ellen Maud 1867
John Percy 1871
Alfred Earnest 1869
2)Elizabeth Anne was a Dargan not a d'argan. Richard was Irish as was her father
3)William Henry de Saxe died in Launceston (on stage as he was a musician) Alfred had him interred in Kew cemetary
His wife was a famous actress Katherine (Kate ) Howarde. They had a daughter.
4) my (Greg's) mother was christened Clara Harman not Herman. She used the name Clare.
5)I (Greg de Saxe)was born in 1941 not 1942.
6) Philip Dargan De Saxe married Millicent Hetherington not Nellie Heatherington

This is the end of Greg's corrections to date.

[8] John Percy born in Sydney in 1870, dentist, married to Florence Martin ? Hartch. They had nine (?) children:

Renee Bignold
Vera Lipman
Doris Bateman
Nancy Heath

Confused? Send corrections! (Above items compiled during May 2007 from all the information collected over a period of years).

The Greg de Saxe File

Greg de Saxe listed above in[7][c{3}] has sent me (July 2007) correct information about his immediate family, and also included several photos, including one of Morris Isaac De Saxe, my father, given to Greg by me many years ago, when he visited me in Sydney. Greg has given me permission to use the material he sent in my genealogy pages.

L De Saxe Dentist

The caption says "An anonymous country dentist" but the name of the dentist is all over the shop!"

The death certificate of Jane De Saxe shows she died on 25 December 1918, aged 80, in the district of Hampstead in London, and she was the widow of Maurice De Saxe - "an umbrella manufacturer. Present at her death was her son, H De Saxe, aged 53 in 1918.

The death certificate of Selim De Saxe, dentist shows he died on 4 October 1902, aged 69, at 161 Spring Street, East Melbourne and was survived by his wife Ellen De Saxe. His parents were descibed as John De Saxe, Sea Captain, and Fanny De Saxe, formerly Lyons. Selim was born in Scotland and had lived in Victoria for 52 years. He was buried in Melbourne Cemetery. (Selim died 5 weeks after my grandmother Paulina De Saxe and appears to have been buried in the same cemetery)

Norman Douglas de Saxe was born in Melbourne on 6 December 1894.

The marriage certificate of Greg de Saxe's parents show that they married in St Barnabas Church Balwyn, Melbourne on 28 April 1923. They were shown as Norman Douglas de Saxe, bachelor, farmer, aged 28, and Clara Violet Harman, spinster, home duties, aged 25. Norman lived in Lake View, Griffith, NSW and Clara lived at 172 Mont Albert Road, Canterbury, Melbourne.

Norman Douglas De Saxe's parents were shown as Alfred Ernest de Saxe, dentist and Elizabeth Anne (born Dargan) and Clara Violet's parents were shown as Alfred Thomas Harman, engineer, and Margaret (born Chimes)

The death certificate of Norman Douglas de Saxe records that he was a farmer, aged 74. He died on 15 January 1970 at the Mona Vale District Hospital and his place of residence was 796 Barrenjoey Road, Palm Beach, NSW. At the time of his death his children's ages were Brian A. aged 44 years, Margaret C. aged 40 years and Gregory N aged 29 years.

De Saxe

De Saxe

De Saxe

De Saxe

De Saxe

Morris - grandson to grandfather

At the moment it is not known whether the above photo of Morris De Saxe was taken in London 5 months after the death of Wilfred Emanuel De Saxe on 28 May 1904, or whether it was taken in Melbourne and sent to Morris De Saxe, Charles De Saxe's father, for his birthday on 16 November 1904. There is also no information as to who the photographer or photographic studio was. Charles De Saxe's father Morris (born 1822 in Scotland) died the following year on 2 August 1905 in London, aged 83.

De Saxe

De Saxe

De Saxe

14 JANUARY 2008

Victory at last! With the help of a De Saxe family researcher who has built up our family chart over many years, and who recently sent me a copy of her work which included an item about Wilfred's death, I have now got the answer to the riddle of Wilfred's disappearance without trace. He died aged 4 in London!

Wilfred's Death Certificate

Death certificate details as follows:

1) When and where died: Twentyeighth May 1904, 5 Belsize Grove
2) Name and surname: Wilfred Emanuel De Saxe
3) Sex: Male
4) Age: 4 years
5) Occupation: Son of Charles De Saxe, a Colonial Merchant
6) Cause of death: Sarcoma of shoulder and chest 6 weeks; Heart failure, Certified by J.M.Brown M.D.
7) Signature, description and residence of informant: E. Mendelssohn grandfather; 5 Belsize Grove, Haverstock Hill
8) When registered: Thirtieth May 1904
9) Signature of registrar: Fred A Bridger, Registrar

The De Saxe family researcher sent me the chart below some years ago and it disappeared so that I had no record of what was on it. The researcher and I recently re-established contact, and I was sent a copy of the original chart. I am placing it on the web page but have not yet had official permission from the researcher. I am hoping to obtain this soon (it is now 26 January 2008)

To date (1 JANUARY 2013) I have had no further contact, but one of my cousins in the UK, David de Saxe, has just sent me some corrections to some items on the chart relating to his branch of the family.

Below the chart are his corrections.

De Saxe genealogy chart compiled by a family history researcher

David de Saxe corrections:


My cousin Jennifer Samuel died in November 2012. She left two sons: Simon David Marcus, born 22.05.58. (He now lives in Sydney.) and Jonathan Daniel Joseph who was born 10,05.60, and married Lisa Bernadout on 25.08.85. They have two children: Jack Marcus,born 03.11 89, and Jessica Elizabeth b14.07.72.

Para 23

You (the above-mentioned researcher) have got the children of Jeannette de Saxe and Alec Cohen wrong;

the details are:

Sonia Saxe Cohen born 28.02 24: m. Boris Rickelman 1948: d.05.02.49
Davd Edward Saxe Cohen (me) b. 05.11.33; m. Maureen Wilson 11.08.62.

The important thing to note about our part of the family is that, confusingly, my father changed the family name from Cohen (though we were known as Saxe-Cohen to de Saxe. This happened 14 October 1939. Since then, we have been known as de Saxe.

Maureen and I have two daughters, Helen Barbara b.15.11.63 and Sonia Clare b.04.02.66. Neither of them are married, but Helen is in a stable relationship with Andrew Leader and they have one son Oliver Alexander Leader, born on 24.02.01: he is known by the surname Leader de Saxe. Sonia, in a stable relationship with Richard Saltmarsh, has two daughters, Nia Rose, b. 13.08.01, and Eluned Isabel Seren, born 16.09.05. Both the girls are known as de Saxe. We are a genealogist's nightmare!

Para 24.

Shirley Hoffman died in,I think, February 1935.

Thank you, David, for the above corrections and updates.

4 JANUARY 2008

The chart below was compiled for the De Saxe genealogy by Gary Jaynes from information found at the State Library of Victoria. Thanks to Gary for this very useful set of tables.

From Death Index 1921-1985 (SLV)
Death place Reg No Name Father Mother Age Year
St Kilda 13442 Juanita Evelyn De Saxe Fox Jas Hy Matilda Unknown 70 1942
E Hills 5050 Elizth Anne De Saxe Dargan Rich Nancy Arbuthnot 88 1953
Surr 3613 Alfred Ernest De Saxe George Jane Fox 91 1960
Ascot Vale 11813 Joseph De Saxe Morris Abigail Isaacs 65 1915
From Marriage Index 1921-42 for Family name = De Saxe
Given name Spouse family name Spouse given name Reg Yr Reg No
Norman Douglas Harman Clara Violet 1923 3277
Rupert Henry Evelyn Godfrey Alice Lenora 1924 7047
Alma Middendorp Peter 1925 2971
Violet Dargan McIntyre Wm Gibson 1929 3357
From Edwardian Index
Death place Reg No Name Father Mother Age Year
St Kilda 11724 Paulina De Saxe Mendelhosn Emanuel Carol Emanuel 25 1902
Melb E 14616 Selim De Saxe De Saxe Jno Fanny Lyons 69 1902
Melb E 9770 Ellen De Saxe Waghorne Jas Elizth Unknown 74 1904
From Pioneer Index
Birth place Reg No Name Sps name/Father Sps given/mother Year [of marriage?]
? 1475 Selim De Saxe Waghorne Ellen 1858
Coridon 213 Joseph De Saxe Fox Juanita 1888
Children of George De Saxe and Jane Ann Fox
Birth place Reg No Name Date of birth
Windsor 917 George 1856      
Windsor 1321 Lewis 1858      
Shurst 21573 Wm Hy 1861      
Bendigo 23048 Unnamed male 1861 this child died 1D later (at Sand, reg 20019)

This item was found in JULY/AUGUST 2016 by Marian De Saxe in searching for De Saxe genealogical items - it relates to a Victorian State Parliament committee report of 7 FEBRUARY 1882:

See items 193 to 198 on page 43 to page 48: EvidenceP151-300.pdf

21 MARCH 2017

Information about a branch of the De Saxe family of which I have had very little information in past years has been given to me by Sue Benson from whom I have had some information in past years as well as from her mother Thora Gibson.

Thora Gibson's mother was an actress, Vera Remee, and some of the story is about her and her family connections to the De Saxe family.

Vera's death certificate gives the following information:

Full Name - Vera Remee Fenwick
Last residence - 19 Playfield Street, East Victoria Park, WA
Age at death - 74 years
Date of death - 22 JANUARY 1962
Place of birth - Noumea
Lived in New South Wales for 25 years
Lived in Western Australia for 36 years
Name of father - Austin Wallis - Health Inspector
Name of mother - Ellen Maude De Saxe
Married - Sydney NSW - 19 JANUARY 1919
Name of husband - Henry Edward Fenwick

Inscriptions on gravestones: Left hand stone: In Loving Memory of Vera Remee Fenwick Died 22nd JANUARY 1962 Aged 74 YEARS
Right hand stone: In Loving Memory of Henry Edward Fenwick Died 1st MAY 1964 Aged 84 YEARS

John (De Saxe) and Fanny (Lyons) had several children and that information is confusing enough on its own, but as the family "plot" thickens, it seems we of the second, third and fourth generations are Australian connected, starting with two of John and Fanny's children, George (who seems also to have been known as Charles) and Morris.

These two brothers also had several children each. Morris had two wives and some children with each. Joseph was from the first marriage, and my grandfather Charles Moses was from the second marriage.

Charles Moses was a first cousin to Ellen Maude and Alfred Ernest

Morris Isaac was a second cousin to Vera Remee and Norman Douglas

Mannie De Saxe is therefore a third cousin to Thora and Greg.

Greg and Sue Benson, Thora's daughter are second cousins once removed.

Two of George's chldren and the two who were part of this story, Ellen Maude and Alfred Ernest. Ellen Maude had a daughter Vera Remee who was a well-known actress.

She had a daughter who was Thora and whose married name was Gibson, and she had a daughter who is Sue Benson.

Alfred Ernest's son was Norman Douglas, and one of his sons is Greg de Saxe.

Morris De Saxe had a son, Charles Moses, whose son was Morris Isaac, whose son is Mannie De Saxe.

Vera Remee was a first cousin to Norman Douglas.

Vera Remee's daughter Thora and Norman Douglas's son Greg are second cousins.

Hope you can work it out!

Sue Benson, Thora Gibson's daughter, recently gave me this photo of her mother, and I was astonished to see how similar Thora and Remee are in appearance. There can be no doubt that they are mother and daughter. A photo of Sue Benson below these other photos would show that the family resemblance has continued through a few generations.









Mannie De Saxe also has a personal web site, which may be found by clicking on the link: RED JOS: HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISM

Mannie's blogs may be accessed by clicking on to the following links:

MannieBlog (from 1 August 2003 to 31 December 2005)

Activist Kicks Backs - Blognow archive re-housed - 2005-2009

RED JOS BLOGSPOT (from January 2009 onwards)

This page updated 6 SEPTEMBER 2013 and again on 4 JULY 20121